Want to kick off the academic year strong? New graduates from 2024 share the top 6 things that you should know.
[01:04] Number 1: be intentional about your learning
[04:23] Number 2: take advantage of resources
[07:27] Number 3: try to find a good work-life balance.
[09:29] Number 4: your friends can make all the difference.
[13:14] Number 5: it's a tough job market, but you will get a job if you persist.
[15:29] Number 6: nurture your network
[19:16] Calls to action with Kimberly Huynh. Learn more about our career workshops and Alumni-Student Mentorship Program.
00:00:05 Mario
Hello and welcome back to In the Loop. This is season 2 episode 1. If you are joining us for the very first time, my name is Professor Mario Badr. I am joined here by Professor Diane Horton. And we both had a lot of conversations about what this episode should be about. We knew we wanted it to be about how to kick off your new year, and since we were thinking about this back in June, Diane had a great idea.
00:00:32 Diane
Thanks, Mario. Yeah, I was thinking that since we'd be getting together with our new grads at convocation, what a wonderful opportunity to ask them for their advice for students just about to start a fresh new year.
00:00:45 Mario
So, we did exactly that. I set up a reporter style during the department's graduation receptions and asked our new grads a few questions. In this episode, Diane and I have distilled that down for you into the top six things that new grads want you to know to start off your year.
00:01:04 Diane
Number 1: be intentional about your learning.
00:01:09 Mario
Everyone comes to university to learn and, no surprise, many students had advice about that.
00:01:15 Akash
I really focus on the fundamentals like the core fundamentals for reason like having a strong foundation in the basics lets you like learn a lot on the job and let you do more than you expect.
00:01:27 Daniel
The biggest thing though, is practicing, A, your soft skills. I feel like that's very important in the working place. So, you'll notice that a lot of people in the work environment actually lack soft skills. And it's easy to say, practice your speech like practice your writing and everything, but they really do make invaluable skills.
00:01:48 Diane
I agree. Don't you, Mario? That so-called soft skills are very important. Employers highly value strong communication skills and the ability to work effectively in a team.
00:01:59 Mario
Yeah, definitely. And the students who have these skills are going to stand out from the crowd. So definitely pay attention to developing these soft skills.
00:02:06 Diane
And it's also important to pay attention to what you enjoy.
00:02:11 Akash
I wouldn't underestimate the power of your curiosity. Like really dive deep, like follow things that are interesting to you. And like, let yourself dive deep on topics that are actually fun to you and…
00:02:22 Tony
Find what you're passionate about and you'll eventually find something that lines up with your goal.
00:02:27 Muhammad
Being interested in the things you're learning. And finding people who are better at it than you. You can learn a lot just from being around them.
00:02:34 Mario
So, Diane, this idea of pursuing your interests, it really extends beyond computer science. Undergrad is such a great time to explore things like, you know, psychology or medieval history.
00:02:47 Diane
Whatever you're interested in. Did you take anything outside of your core engineering program when you were in undergrad?
00:02:52 Mario
Yeah. No, I took poetry, actually. In addition to some other some other English courses. It was just it was a nice compliment and a way to explore things I think.
00:03:01 Diane
Yeah, I did some philosophy (I was very bad at it). And psychology was a big sideline for me. It was super enriching and it's good for its own sake because you're learning something new. But then sometimes you end up connecting it back to your Computer Science because CS goes with everything.
00:03:18 Mario
Absolutely. And you know, another thing to keep in mind, maybe orthogonal to this, is that you're going to continue learning throughout your entire career.
00:03:26 Muhammad
Get really good at learning how to learn. That's the thing is probably gonna get you far because the industry changes a lot. The tech stack changes a lot. The things the amount of things are going to need to learn are going to change all the time. So if you have your fundamentals down and you know how to learn things, you're probably going to be fine.
00:03:42 Diane
And we'll end with one very specific bid advice about learning. I love this one.
00:03:47 Victor
This is the advice that I only learned towards the end of my university and that is to always come to every lecture and sit in the front seat. And I can't list all the benefits that it can give you, but it changed every single thing about my university experience. Like my first two years were completely different from my last two because of this advice that I took. And actually I took it from my wife right there, who always sat in the front seat every single time and I completely changed the way I interact with professors. The way I'm engaging the material. And how I view education as a whole.
00:04:23 Mario
Number two: take advantage of resources.
00:04:27 Berke
I think the thing that people realize later in their life in college is that there are so many resources at UofT, but only if you use them. So, my first advice would be to when you come to UofT, look for all the resources they have and find those that that relate to you.
00:04:44 Diane
The students we talked to recommended some particular resources.
00:04:50 Eddie
I think the most important thing, make sure to take advantage of the computer science labs. The computers here are amazing and if you even if you don't want to use the computers, just take advantage of the space where nobody's there. It's a really nice study space.
00:05:07 Ramy
So, I think this is very trite advice because you hear it all the time, but definitely take as much advantage as you can of the resources that you have here. And go to office hours, please go to office hours. It's like the best resource you will ever have and props are so supportive of your learning, so make sure you go to office hours. Even if you feel like you don't really have any good questions to ask, or if you feel really lost in the course.
00:05:31 Diane
In my undergrad I regret that I didn't go to officers until third year and that was a big mistake. How about you Mario?
00:05:38 Mario
Oh yeah, no, I remember this one time... I wasn't going to office hours. I was in an Arts and Science elective class, so I'm used to like the Engineering style of doing things. So, I finally go to office hours, maybe towards the last third of the semester and the TA hosting these office hours begins with, “OK, I'm going to stop giving answers to the assignments”, and I'm like, wait, what? There were answers to the assignments.
00:06:04 Diane
I've never seen that happen in CS office hours and I would have a word with the TA but wow, yeah mistake. I spun my wheels a lot and suffered alone in my dorm room, and when I finally went to office hours it was a life changer.
00:06:20 Mario
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, like office hours are great, but actually students also pointed out that there are many non-academic resources available to you on this camp.
00:06:28 Ramy
I think the other thing that I would really recommend is to make use of like the extra facilities like the gym and the pool and stuff like that. Like if you're not opting out, you are paying for it. So, take a Zumba class. It's a really good way to destressed during a really, really stressful semester. So, I would really recommend that.
00:06:46 Diane
The athletic facilities on campus are really extraordinary. You’ll probably never again after you graduate will have access to such good facilities.
00:06:55 Mario
Yeah, and as we just heard, you know, if you're paying for it, use it. The Athletic Center is a wonderful resource for working out. I loved it.
00:07:03 Diane
Personally, I love Hart House. That's where I did a lot of my workouts, and I also sang in a choir there. Hart House has so much more than just a gym and a pool. You can even get your hair cut there. Did you know that Mario?
00:07:16 Mario
You know, I did.
00:07:16 Diane
Ohh cool. And it looks like Hogwarts. So, what's not to love?
00:07:27 Mario
Number three, try to find a good work life balance.
00:07:31 Leen
Do stuff that isn't just studying, like join clubs. Try and be social, cause the years will pass by in the blink of an eye. Maybe because my generation started with COVID so I didn't get as much of a chance to socialize that I’m saying that… but yeah.
00:07:45 Derek
I think the biggest thing is throughout your years at university, you have to keep having fun with your life outside of school. You know, we all need that balance when it comes to work and life and a lot of the students that I see around here tend a little bit more to work than life. And that's something that really helps you like stay on top of everything you're doing, stay focused and stay happy with everything. That and keep ahead of your work too.
00:08:12 Diane
School can be so intense and it's natural to think that you don't have time, but anything you can do to attend to your broader well-being will be very worthwhile.
00:08:21 Mario
Yeah. And it's it's easy to think that you're going to have all the time in the world later after you graduate. And that was kind of true for me because I went to grad school for a very, very long time but eventually… now. Now I have a family and I've quickly found myself in this situation where it's really hard to find time for myself and what I've come back to is something I've always enjoyed: cooking. And this works out great because cooking is not just time for myself, but I end up actually feeding my ever growing children. What about you, Diane? How do you find time for yourself?
00:08:53 Diane
I take dance classes and I like to do Pilates and yoga. I admit, these things can be hard to keep up with when life gets busy, but I actually get more work done because these activities invigorate. I'm also a big fan of the little things. For example, when I'm out walking, I often don't have my air pods in. Instead, I'm listening to the birds. I'm smelling the flowers and saying hi to my neighbors. This doesn't take any time at all. Out of my day and it makes me really happy.
00:09:29 Diane
Number 4: your friends can make all the difference.
00:09:32 Daniel
I was doubtful when I first came to UofT and I was kind of scared that I wouldn't be able to do this. I didn't know if it was the right field for myself. But it was definitely the professors and the students along the way that helped me get to where I am now.
00:09:48 Mario
We heard a lot about friendship and there's a lot of value in working together and also in learning from each other.
00:09:55 Daniel
I feel like the biggest thing when I first started my CS journey was making a lot of friends. Collaboration is key in this field, leaning on each other and learning from each other is probably the most invaluable skill you will have in your career. Because you're going to also notice that in the workplace that your team and you're going to gather new insights, new learning opportunities. You're always learning.
00:10:17 Alamgir
I think my biggest advice would be to sort of find friends that motivate you, like find people that are alike and not alike because you learn a lot from them. And like even when there’s school work, you can always teach each other things, reinforce concepts and whatnot.
00:10:34 Diane
I find I always understand a concept more deeply when I have the opportunity to explain it to a friend.
00:10:40 Mario
Yeah, definitely. And you know, friendships are valuable for more than just helping you learn better. University is a time of some pretty big challenges and a lot of personal growth. So going through the Crucible together can forge some friendships that last way beyond your undergrad.
00:10:58 Alamgir
It's just good to have a social network, have a good time, just besides the studies as well, because it's all about the balance, I think so. Like, as long as that you and your friends are committed and working hard, everything's going to work out fine. And it's not too much to worry about as long as you have a good time doing it.
00:11:17 Arthur
Friends are your best tool in university like they will help you through the worst times and celebrate the best times with you. So, make good friends, make them early, stick with them because without my friends I would not be standing being ready to graduate today.
00:11:33 Diane
Mario, what was it like for you in your undergrad program? Did you make some strong friendships? Did any of them last?
00:11:40 Mario
You know, I did. I did make some good friends in my undergrad, both in engineering and in my electives, and I really wish I could keep in touch with all of them. But there are a few that, you know, even if we haven't talked in a year (because of how busy life tends to get as an adult) I can still sometimes just message them and we pick up right where we left off.
00:12:00 Diane
Those are the best friends. What about students who are starting this school year without a strong friend group? One graduate shared a great idea.
00:12:08 Tony
I think one of my advice would definitely be going to office hours in first year. So, most of my friends who are in upper years with me right now are the friends that I made during office hours in first year or second year where you have a lot more classes. The class size is a lot bigger and then once you find friends that you share similar hobbies with then you guys can really delve into the deeper topics and harder topics in computer science.
00:12:35 Diane
This is such a good point, and office hours are really fun when there's a group of students asking questions, they're hearing other people's questions, and they're hearing my answers and everyone's learning together. Some people come just to listen, and that's great too.
00:12:50 Mario
Yeah. And, you know, a lot of times these students have never spoken to each other before.
00:12:54 Diane
That's one reason why I like to write everyone's name down on my whiteboard. It helps me learn the names, but they're also getting to know each other.
00:13:02 Mario
Yes. And you know what I love hearing? It's when they ask questions that are not directed to me. Like, “Hey, what section are you in?” Or, “Do you have a partner for the assignment?”
00:13:14 Diane
Number 5: it's a tough job market, but you will get a job if you persist.
00:13:19 Muhammad
I’ll be working on high performance computing at Cerebrus thing. I got really lucky.
00:13:25 Mario
So, there's no doubt that students graduating in June 2024 faced a tougher job market than in previous years, but we heard over and over that students will get a job if they persist.
00:13:39 Akash
Yeah, I think it's really a numbers game at this point. You just have to apply to as many applications as you as you physically can. You know, don't be too picky with what you apply to.
00:13:47 Victor
It takes time. It's OK you will get rejected a lot. But one generic advice is like it's a numbers game so that every time you apply, you might have a 0.5% chance. Sometimes you have 10% chance, but the more you play, the more lottery tickets you buy, the more chance you have to win.
00:14:05 Diane
Of course, it makes sense that you have to keep applying and this will raise your chances at the same time, though, it's really hard to handle a lot of rejection.
00:14:13 Mario
Yeah, we heard about that too.
00:14:15 Akash
But yeah, just don't be discouraged if you don't get responses, cause it's really hard market. And like I know people that have 1000 applications and have had like one or two callbacks. That's just a normal rate and current market and I'll be OK with that and be OK with rejection.
00:14:28 Ramy
Just don't give up like it's going to get so bleak. 3 months, six months, 8 months, one year more. But you just need one offer. Like that's the only thing you need. Just one. So, like you could send out 500 even 1000, but you only need one for everything to turn out. All right in the end. So just don't give up. You can't give up.
00:14:50 Mario
I love that quote. I love the idea that you just need one.
00:14:55 Diane
So true. And always remember that you have a CS degree from the University of Toronto and it holds a lot of value.
00:15:03 Ramy
You have to trust in your schooling. You have to trust in the work that you put in and you have to trust that you are capable and that you can do good work and provide value to people. So just make sure just remain confident in yourself because it's really not you, it it really is the market right now
00:15:18 Victor
It will take time. Maybe take two weeks, maybe take six months, but you'll always do it with your degree, with your achievements.
00:15:29 Mario
Number six: nurture your network.
00:15:33 Alamgir
To get the interview I would say networking and making sure you're putting yourself out there is the most important aspect.
00:15:39 Diane
This is advice I definitely needed when I was an undergrad. Networking was really intimidating to me. I didn't want to do it, and it also had a negative tinge in my mind for sure.
00:15:50 Mario
Yeah, like those shady backroom deals of, like, hey, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.
00:15:56 Diane
Exactly greasy. Gross, but now I know I was looking at it totally the wrong way.
00:16:02 Mario
Yeah, I agree. Networking is- It's really just about talking with people who are willing to share their knowledge and experience with you.
00:16:09 Diane
But why do you hear this advice so often? What makes networking so important?
00:16:16 Leen
Network. Because it's really hard to stand out with just the thousands and thousands of applications it gets sent out over paper and online, so trying to grow your network has been more successful in my experience.
00:16:31 Tony
Not working is a big thing, so a lot of times b open to talk to people and ask to them, for them, to share experiences. A lot of those interviews may not necessarily come from the formal job markets and things like that, but rather through just a friendly chat or just some sort of interesting questions you ask to a certain member.
00:16:53 Muhammad
Reach out to people. Just build connections not just for the sake of finding a job, but for… But just like meet new people, interesting people who are up to interesting things. And then I'm sure, like some pathways always end up making themselves known.
00:17:08 Mario
So Diane, it’s not just that, you know. Yes, it is a numbers game, but at the same time, what about those things that aren't posted or those opportunities that you can't find online? Without networking, you're not going to see those opportunities.
00:17:24 Diane
And you're also not going to get the bump you might get if somebody who you've talked to and knows you recommends you for the job.
00:17:32 Mario
But you know it, it is hard and sometimes students don't know exactly where to start. But you already know people who can be part of your network.
00:17:41 Daniel
Also, just collaborating with your professors cause they're great resources and you'll make it through it.
00:17:46 Berke
… and contact with your professors. Talk with everyone.
00:17:50 Leen
And you know your classmates are also your network in a way… So don't forget them too.
00:17:56 Alamgir
Make the most of the people you have around you, whether that's profs, whether that's mentors, whether that's friends. I think the most important aspect of university for me was definitely the network I've made.
00:18:10 Diane
And it's OK to ask your profs questions that go beyond the course. Also, maybe your neighbor works in tech and you can ask to meet them or your boss at that part time job has a sister in the business. You can ask for an introduction.
00:18:24 Mario
Yeah, it's the. It's the famous coffee date.
00:18:27 Alamgir
I think if you're able to work your way ino networking and you know getting on chats with people, asking them for like referrals and all of that, I think that definitely helps you get your foot in the door.
00:18:38 Mario
You know, it's helpful to think of a coffee date as a conversation that you're gonna learn from. It's not about asking for a job. It's about coming away with some new information or some new way of thinking. And if you happen to leave with two referrals to other people, even better.
00:18:54 Diane
We all know about exponential growth. If two referrals lead to two, each of them to two. You're ending up talking to a lot of people, and as we heard, all it takes is for one of these conversations to be the one that ultimately leads to the kind of opportunity you've been looking for.
00:19:16 Mario
All right, so I am here now actually with Kimberly Huynh, who is our mentorship and career coordinator in the Department of Computer Science. Kimberly, I'm wondering, so for students who are listening to this episode at the start of the 2024-2025 academic year, what can they do to get started on preparing for their career?
00:19:37 Kimberly
So in the fall semester, we have a number of workshops, all career related, some of which include a resume and LinkedIn workshop, a technical interview mock workshop, along with just a general workshop about how to find jobs and and what to do to prepare for the job market. So that you can expect that for the fall semester.
00:20:02 Mario
That's awesome. And what about our students who you know are maybe listening to this episode a little bit later in the academic year or even in in future years? What can they do?
00:20:13 Kimberly
So, we'll be having DCS ambassadors who are our student mentors either attend or lead some of these workshops. So, they'll be taking extensive notes and just main ideas from these workshops and create static resources for students who are unable to attend these workshops or events.
00:20:33 Mario
Excellent. That's very cool. And then one other thing that I want to ask you about which I know about because I've been a part of it for for a few years. But there's the alumni student mentorship program. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
00:20:46 Kimberly
So the alumni mentorship program is catered toward 3rd and 4th year students and we match our current CS students with alumni from the program. And this year we're expanding it a little bit more to include more in person components which will include office visits and a career panel. And students can expect to see the application open around the end of September or October, so make sure to have your notifications on and that you're signed up for the CS undergrad Quercus page, where we'll be announcing a lot of these events and workshops.
00:21:26 Mario
Awesome. Thank you so much, Kimberly. And you guys heard it here. First on In the Loop for when these applications opened to the alumni Student Mentorship program. Thanks again, Kimberly.
00:21:34 Kimberly
You're welcome.
00:21:42 Mario
Alright, so before we wrap up, I just want to thank all our new graduates who took time on their convocation day to speak with us. In no particular order, thank you, Akash, Alamgir, Arthur, Berke, Daniel, Derek, Eddie, Leen, Muhammad, Ramy, Tony and Victor.
00:22:00 Diane
Wait, Mario wasn't that alphabetical order?
00:22:03
Here.
00:22:04 Mario
It's possible, but I'm not going to.
00:22:06 Mario
Go back and check.
00:22:08 Diane
OK. Well, thank you to all our new grads. There were so many good ideas in this episode. Shall we recap the six things, Mario?
00:22:16 Mario
Let's do it.
00:22:17 Mario
Number 1: be intentional about your learning.
00:22:20 Diane
Number 2: take advantage of resources.
00:22:23 Mario
Number3: try to find a good work life balance.
00:22:27 Diane
Number 4: your friends can make all the difference.
00:22:31 Mario
Number 5: it's a tough job market, but you will get a job if you.
00:22:35 Diane
Persist and number six, nurture your network.
00:22:39 Mario
What was your favorite advice that we heard, Diane?
00:22:43 Diane
Take advantage of office hours for sure, and nurture your network.
00:22:46 Mario
See, that was two things. I can be pedantic too.
00:22:49 Diane
What was your favorite Mario?
00:22:52 Mario
You know, I also really liked the friendship part.
00:23:02 Mario
All right. That's all for us. My name is Mario Badr.
00:23:06 Diane
And I'm Diane Horton. And you are in the loop.
00:23:10 Mario
Can you tell we've been practicing?
00:23:23 Mario
Hey, Diane, what are students doing when they take a nap during one of my lectures?
00:23:26 Diane
I don't know. Mario. What?
00:23:29 Mario
They are having a siesta.
00:23:32 Diane
Ohh.