Are you applying for grad school soon? Hear from faculty experts about all the parts of an application and how to set yourself up for success. Guests include Professors Angela Demke Brown, Chris Maddison, Carolina Nobre, Gennady Pekhimenko, and Nandita Vijaykumar.
[0:44] An overview of the application process, including the Statement of Purpose, with Professor Angela Demke Brown, Associate Chair of Graduate Operations.
[11:20] What does it take to get in? Professor Gennady Pekhimenko shares some insights on how applications are reviewed during the admissions process.
[15:38] What makes a reference letter a strong recommendation? We continue our discussion with Professor Pekhimenko, who offers suggestions on how to secure strong letters of reference.
[19:12] How should you approach faculty for reference letters? Professors Nandita Vijaykumar, Carolina Nobre, Chris Maddison share their advice.
[24:59] Where should you apply? Our guests discuss strategy and propose an upper bound on the number of programs you should apply to.
[29:25] Mario and Diane wrap up.
00:00:05 Mario
All right, let's kick it. So in episode 2, we learned about what grad school is like. We saw the different pathways through it, how to get some research experience, which is going to help you figure out what the grad school is right for you and to have a stronger application when that time comes.
00:00:21 Mario
But let's say that you are in a position to apply this year. What now?
00:00:26 Diane
In this episode, we're going to dive into the application process. We'll talk about the components of an application, what it has to look like in order to be successful. The all important letters of recommendation, and also helping you decide what schools to apply to.
00:00:44 Diane
Let's start with an overview of the application process. What do you have to submit and when? Professor Angela Demke Brown summarized the various pieces of an application to grad school.
00:00:56 Angela Demke Brown
So the things that you have to submit would be a well, your transcripts, those should mostly take care of themselves by the time you're applying the statement of purpose, which is a one to two page typically statement that you write.
00:01:17 Angela Demke Brown
About your past experience and motivation why you want to go to grad school, what you plan to do or hope to do in in that program, see.
00:01:30 Angela Demke Brown
Outlining all of your experience.
00:01:33 Angela Demke Brown
And and you need to arrange for typically 3 letters of reference.
00:01:41 Mario
OK, so we learned in episode 2 that grades are not the cornerstone of your application, and Professor Danke Brown talked about what is most important.
00:01:53 Mario
What role do grades play in getting into Graduate School?
00:01:57 Diane
And what's the most important thing for a strong application?
00:02:01 Angela Demke Brown
So I'd say the role of grades, there's sort of a a gatekeeper. You need a certain baseline level to be considered and that that level is not a 4.0 you.
00:02:17 Angela Demke Brown
It's hard to say exactly where the line is drawn because it is competitive and it's going to depend on the applicant pool in any given year, but the the cutoff for our program is a B Plus average. Most students are higher than that, but just by way of letting you know that.
00:02:37 Angela Demke Brown
It you know, it doesn't have to be a plus. There's actually a range of grades, but you do have to be above that minimum bar to get looked at.
00:02:47 Diane
Not to get in, yeah.
00:02:47 Angela Demke Brown
Get looked at.
00:02:50 Mario
And then it varies by Professor, I guess where the next bar might be or.
00:02:53
Right.
00:02:54 Angela Demke Brown
Yeah. After that, we look at the applications more holistically. So we're looking to see we're looking at reference letters and CV's and we're looking to see does the person have some research experience, how did they do with that.
00:03:10 Angela Demke Brown
And.
00:03:11 Angela Demke Brown
In many cases, what you want to see is not a.
00:03:16 Angela Demke Brown
Pacific.
00:03:18 Angela Demke Brown
Knowledge or expertise in a topic that you're going to research because we'll teach you that when you are in grad school, but it's more of a an aptitude for research. So dealing with uncertainty, independent thought, time management.
00:03:37 Angela Demke Brown
All of the kinds of things that give you a sense that this person is going to be able to work independently on a vaguely defined problem and manage their own time well and see it through to completion.
00:03:54 Diane
So This is why it's so valuable to get research experience before you apply to grad school. It's first of all the best way to demonstrate those crucial skills, and then therefore the best way to get those strong letters of recommendation. But what about a strong student who doesn't have research experience? Is it game over?
00:04:16 Mario
So.
00:04:17 Mario
I don't know if this is a a good question to ask, but suppose I'm a student. I have a 4.0. I've dedicated all my resources to kind of getting this 4.0, so I don't actually have any research experience. When I apply to you. If these grad program do I even have a chance?
00:04:33 Angela Demke Brown
Yes.
00:04:35 Angela Demke Brown
But you're going to need to. Sorry I didn't mention the statement of purpose, which is basically where you write about yourself and your motivation why you want to go.
00:04:46 Angela Demke Brown
To grad school.
00:04:49 Angela Demke Brown
So if if all you've got is that 4.0 average and no other experience, then you need to really use that space to make a case for why you want to go to grad school. And that's where you maybe are going to.
00:05:06 Angela Demke Brown
You look at what got you really excited about those courses that you took, you know, where where are you focused? Why do you want to do more of of this a bad statement of purpose says something like I really enjoyed taking courses and I'm looking forward to taking more courses in grad school.
00:05:28 Mario
All right, so it's more difficult to get an offer of admission without research experience, but it's not impossible.
00:05:35 Diane
That's right. And the best thing you can do if you're in that situation is to use your statement of purpose. Effectively, you can tie together the threads that tell the story of who you are and give a compelling picture, for instance.
00:05:48 Diane
You might make connections across courses, pulling out the things that you love the most about computer science and where they came up in your different courses.
00:05:58 Diane
You might talk about side projects that you did and anything at all that demonstrates your own initiative like self learning or side projects is really helpful.
00:06:07 Mario
You mentioned statement of purpose Diane. And I remember when I applied to Graduate School, I saw this weird looking statement of purpose thing. It's it's really it's a it's an unfamiliar document that you have to write.
00:06:18 Mario
You never have to write 1 before and so you want to make sure that it doesn't become a wasted opportunity.
00:06:26 Diane
How about? I've wanted to get a PhD since I was five years old and I learned to program in grade.
00:06:32 Diane
2.
00:06:33 Angela Demke Brown
We see a lot of.
00:06:34 Angela Demke Brown
Those, yes. So they're not so impactful.
00:06:38 Diane
No, they don't tell you anything really.
00:06:41 Diane
Yeah. Sorry, I got you off.
00:06:44 Angela Demke Brown
So and in, I'm not saying that this isn't, it's not accurate, right? People? Some people have been really focused on computers, have fascinated with them from a very young age.
00:07:00 Angela Demke Brown
But what you want to do with that with that space then is write about what you've done with that passion that you have, right?
00:07:12 Angela Demke Brown
And maybe like you got involved with some open source software project and made it made some contributions or.
00:07:24 Angela Demke Brown
I don't know there. There's so many different things that you.
00:07:27 Angela Demke Brown
Could potentially do to show your interest and motivation for wanting to to go deeper. If your motivation for getting a PhD is because you want to teach, then you know maybe you've had some undergraduate TA experience that you can write about why you know this is something you're really passionate about.
00:07:48 Angela Demke Brown
And want that PhD so that you can, you know, go into a career in computer science education wherever you find your motivation, try to make that really clear in your application.
00:08:02 Diane
OK, Mario, so we've got the transcript, which everyone knows what that is, the CV, which is just an academically oriented resume. So that's fairly straightforward. And now we've got some ideas about the statement of purpose. Let's talk now about the letters of reference.
00:08:17 Mario
Hold on. Hold on. There's there's a really common question that I always get here. So if you're a student before you apply, do you have to actually find a professor who agrees to supervise you?
00:08:29 Angela Demke Brown
So.
00:08:31 Angela Demke Brown
Again, it's going to vary depending on how a school does admissions.
00:08:37 Angela Demke Brown
You should at least know them by name and by what work they do and be able to write about that in your statement. As far as you needing to know them personally or have them know you personally.
00:08:52 Angela Demke Brown
It depends on how the school does admissions.
00:08:55 Angela Demke Brown
In in our admissions, for example, when a student applies, they have the opportunity to check off a number of faculty that they are interested in working with.
00:09:08 Angela Demke Brown
And the admissions committee is effectively the entire graduate faculty of the department, so everybody is looking at files and considering students for admission to the program and then making recommendations for admission to a.
00:09:28 Angela Demke Brown
Much smaller actual admissions committee.
00:09:32 Angela Demke Brown
But in order to get that recommendation from a faculty member, there has to be something that catches their attention, and that might be the research experience that you have. It might be the letters of reference or something that you said in the statement, and if they.
00:09:52 Angela Demke Brown
Already know you in some.
00:09:54 Angela Demke Brown
City. Then they have that additional information as well.
00:09:58 Mario
So you're saying is not just putting the name in the statement of purpose, but saying something about that faculty members research and why you're interested in it.
00:10:06 Angela Demke Brown
Exactly. So if you just have a list of names in the statement of purpose that doesn't say much, but if you have specific examples of work that a faculty member has done and you can connect that to something you have done or some specific interest that you have, then that's going to be much more.
00:10:26 Angela Demke Brown
Powerful. Then you're just naming name.
00:10:30 Diane
Let's talk about timelines.
00:10:32 Diane
When in the ER applications due to.
00:10:34 Angela Demke Brown
Typically early December.
00:10:36 Diane
That's a shocker for many people who haven't thought ahead. So I'm not even I'm just barely getting the fall term started and I gotta get letters.
00:10:45 Mario
So in the fall of your last year, you're going to be putting together your applications and asking professors for reference letters, so you really want to already have that research experience. And several professors who know you well when that September arrives.
00:10:58 Diane
As well as the students and first, second and third year, please keep that in mind, and Episode 2 offers some tips on how to get that research experience.
00:11:08 Mario
And one of the best things you can do for many, many reasons. And this has been a theme in episodes one and two so far of this season is just talk to your professors. So we've painted a picture of what an applicant submits and when. Why don't we get a little further into how that application gets read?
00:11:30 Diane
Yeah. In our department, all faculty review applications and contribute to decisions about who to admit. And importantly, they indicate which applicants they would like to supervise. And Admissions committee drives the whole process.
00:11:45 Mario
So we turn now to Professor Gunadi vehemently, who has served on the admissions committee for three years.
00:11:52 Mario
So those people that are, you know, reading the students application, what are they looking for and what makes a strong application?
00:11:59 Gennady Pekhimenko
But very high level, what all of us are looking these profiles are any indicators that this person, this candidate he or she can succeed in the graduate career. And that's a very general, you know look but then there are different uh signals that might.
00:12:19 Gennady Pekhimenko
Say that that's a high possibility. So the first obvious thing.
00:12:24 Gennady Pekhimenko
If the person already did research before and they succeeded it, that's a very strong signal.
00:12:29 Mario
And how does the faculty member tell how the student did in their previous research experience?
00:12:35 Gennady Pekhimenko
Researches, especially new fields that work with the candidate and provide him or her very strong reference letters, then even better if there is a publication as the result of it, it's not always possible.
00:12:48 Gennady Pekhimenko
But if you start early enough, say 2nd 30 year, you might get publications. Then after that you would look at statement of purpose and grades and all of their central state of the statement of purpose kind of tells you whether their students see themselves like how they see their trajectory and where they want to be like which research group they're looking for.
00:13:08 Gennady Pekhimenko
Right. A lot of those things are now very poorly played and boring to read. But if you write it properly you you need to get. You can get the right signal. What I care about. Again, what are you excited about? Why? You're looking for grad schools. Like what are the reasons you're going to work?
00:13:24 Gennady Pekhimenko
At school, what did you achieve in that path and what you did in advance? So if.
00:13:28 Chris Maddison
You really like.
00:13:29 Gennady Pekhimenko
Saying me something like I was excited, always dream to be, you know, I'm doing research in my life and then like, but I never actually do any research internships and I didn't do this and this this is kind of what doesn't match.
00:13:39 Gennady Pekhimenko
So things have to be coherent.
00:13:41 Mario
And as we.
00:13:42 Mario
Heard before grades are not the cornerstone of the application.
00:13:46 Gennady Pekhimenko
Having just high rates and including some, you know, 4.0 GPS doesn't mean anything, right? I might not even interview can do this like that if they don't have some.
00:13:55 Gennady Pekhimenko
Other important things.
00:13:58 Mario
So it sounds intimidating. I need a 4.0, but that isn't necessarily enough. I think. I remember teaching students a little bit about necessary and sufficient conditions. What do you think, Diane?
00:14:08 Diane
That's right, the message is not that you need a 4.0 and it isn't enough. A 4.0 isn't sufficient, but it's also not necessary.
00:14:18 Diane
Solid grades will get your application looked at, but after that it's all about your letters and any prior experience you have with research.
00:14:27 Mario
In a good statement of purpose, we'll get across your goals and what you've done so far to work towards them. They can also address any gaps that you might have.
00:14:35 Diane
OK, so I think we have a pretty good picture now, but I imagine some of our listeners are wondering what does it take to get into my dream school?
00:14:43 Mario
And there are some top schools that are in incredible demand. The toughest are probably CMU, Stanford, Berkeley, MIT. For those universities, you're going to need some really strong letters, research experience and publications.
00:14:57 Diane
You know, these schools are so competitive that even with all of those things, you might not get in, but do know that students from U of T get into these top top schools every year. So it is absolutely possible.
00:15:11 Mario
And the expectations are a little bit more relaxed than other schools.
00:15:15 Gennady Pekhimenko
Other than the top 4, the other departments would want the same thing, but they will be more forgiving if certain things are not perfect, right? They're willing to take chances.
00:15:26 Diane
It's a really good idea to talk with the props you know, and certainly the ones who are writing letters for you, to gauge your chances at the various schools you're interested.
00:15:39 Mario
You know, I think we've established that letters of recommendation are very important in a Graduate School application, so let's dive into that a little bit more.
00:15:48 Diane
How many letters does a student need typically for an application?
00:15:53 Gennady Pekhimenko
As far as I know, it's very common to have 3 letters, right? That's a very typical one, but again, I can't speak for every department, but 3 is very typical.
00:16:02 Diane
By far the most helpful are letters that come from someone who you've actually done research with because they can talk about the quality of the research work that you did, and also comment on the personal attributes that predict success in grad school. Things like the ability to read and absorb, very challenging technical material.
00:16:22 Diane
To cut to the heart of the work and ask an excellent question, tenacity with a very hard problem, communication skills and so on.
00:16:32 Diane
So that's the best kernel letter. The next best option is a letter from someone who knows you well, but not through research. You might have worked with them on a large software project, been an excellent TA in their courses, or worked with them on some Co curricular activity, for instance.
00:16:48 Mario
And even if you've just been very active in a course asking lots of questions, going to office hours, the professor has had a chance to get to know you at least a little bit. But a letter from someone who doesn't really know you is just a placeholder and does not help your application.
00:17:07 Gennady Pekhimenko
What you will get is the letter is like something that had an acronym called. I think it's it's in. It was called do well in class. It's not nothing bad about it but you just wasted the letter to shine. So what I can tell you it's better to have a strong industry letter than a letter that talks about your grades and how you did well in class. So you just wasting an opportunity.
00:17:30 Gennady Pekhimenko
20 value letters is not good, so I would say it is 2.
00:17:36 Gennady Pekhimenko
It has to be good.
00:17:38 Mario
One thing to be aware of is that it is appropriate to ask a potential letter writer whether or not they can write you a strong or even helpful letter.
00:17:47 Gennady Pekhimenko
The problem arises where you're actually not true, and when you're not true, it's better.
00:17:51 Gennady Pekhimenko
To have a.
00:17:53 Gennady Pekhimenko
In my opinion, a direct question would be the best. Uh, just politely saying like like, look, I'm looking to, you know, talk like a grad school in this type of department, say, top 20, say, departments in the world. Could you write me a letter? OK. Could you write me a strong letter?
00:18:09 Diane
Professor Pachamanca, I had a really interesting suggestion for students who do have some research experience with the prop but don't have enough people who can write strong letters.
00:18:20 Gennady Pekhimenko
Typical professor like me, we have 10s of collaborators, so the students said, look, I will be applying for grad school. We need 3 writers. I would get to 1 from you, one from another. Who would you think would be a third letter? And I can tell you, look, you cannot do miracles and get a phenomenal letter, but you can start talking. Having research, meeting with the collaborator Acts of mine. So that person.
00:18:41 Gennady Pekhimenko
We'll be writing you an empty letter saying you did well in class, but he said I had research meeting with sports and I've seen him doing research and professor that environment and that will be non 0 value, right? It won't be as good as the one that you are call for the paper with someone, but it's still better than doing a placeholder.
00:18:58 Gennady Pekhimenko
And it's not that difficult. Just think about it and ask in advance not.
00:19:02 Gennady Pekhimenko
Afraid to ask.
00:19:06 Mario
So your goal is to get the three strongest letters that you possibly can. How should you approach faculty about writing you a letter of recommendation? We asked Professors Nandita Vijay Kumar, Chris Madison and Carolina Nobre for their thoughts.
00:19:24 Diane
When is the right time to ask a professor for recommendation to grad school?
00:19:29 Carolina Nobre
As long as I have at least 30 days to work on.
00:19:31 Carolina Nobre
It anytime is fine.
00:19:33 Chris Maddison
Give give a professor a month or two I.
00:19:35 Nandita Vijaykumar
Would say I would say at least two months before that would be a good time just to make sure that it's in my.
00:19:41 Nandita Vijaykumar
Kind.
00:19:42 Mario
So opinions vary a bit, but clearly don't wait until the last moment.
00:19:47 Diane
Who do you say yes to? And who do you say no?
00:19:50 Carolina Nobre
To I definitely only say yes to people who I've seen some of their research, their ability to do research.
00:19:55 Chris Maddison
I say yes to anyone that I have done that I've worked closely with that I've done research with. I say no to all the undergraduates that just take my courses.
00:20:05 Chris Maddison
I think that's something that undergrads might be a bit disappointed by, but a letter that one, one thing that students should be aware is that the letter has to be a factual account of include a factual account of what I know about you and. And if I've not worked with you.
00:20:25 Chris Maddison
The most I can say is that you took my course and and essentially the mark you got and that type of letter is just not useful for you.
00:20:33 Nandita Vijaykumar
The requirement for me is that for me to agree to write a letter, the student has to have worked with me in the sense that they they need to have done a project, a research project with me.
00:20:45 Mario
To get those strong letters we talked about, you need to have done some research with that person. If you don't have three of those letters, you're going to need to stretch a little into the second tier letters that we've talked about. If you've gotten to know some props, hopefully you won't have to get into the Tier 3 did well in class territory.
00:21:03 Diane
What is the best way to approach a professor?
00:21:06 Mario
This can vary from 1 proof to.
00:21:08 Mario
Mother.
00:21:09 Carolina Nobre
Definitely an e-mail. I can start it. I can put it in my folder of recommendation letters. I can get back to it when I have time. I think when someone asks me in the hallway or something like that, my national reaction is please.
00:21:18 Carolina Nobre
Send me an e-mail.
00:21:19 Nandita Vijaykumar
I'm going to forget, given that I only write letters for students who have already worked with me. They're already usually a part of my research group and.
00:21:29 Nandita Vijaykumar
They're already a part of.
00:21:31 Nandita Vijaykumar
Regular meetings that happen. So in that sense it's it's pretty informal. There's no good or bad way. Normally students just at the end of some meeting, they'll be, hey, can I chat for a couple of minutes and then they'll just ask me sometimes via e-mail. All of it is completely fine.
00:21:50 Diane
Are there things a student can do to help you write the best recommendation you can?
00:21:55 Chris Maddison
Make sure you have your materials done before you ask for the letter, right? So so part of what helps me write a story of impact is is seeing your CV. Seeing your research proposal.
00:22:06 Chris Maddison
That will help me tell a coherent story about what you intend to do and what you.
00:22:10 Mario
Have done so, Diane. I just want to mention I just. I received an e-mail from a student who had previously asked me for a reference letter a few months ago and I had listed the things that.
00:22:19 Mario
Would.
00:22:19 Mario
Help me and somehow they remembered all those things. They must have taken notes and they sent me a wonderful e-mail with all the things that will make my life easier.
00:22:28 Mario
To submit their letters of reference.
00:22:29 Diane
It's really helpful when students do that.
00:22:32 Mario
Professor Madison had some more advice on how to help your referees.
00:22:36 Chris Maddison
But you can help me by helping me tell the story of your impact and what you did. So you know often when I write letters, I'll ask, I'll ask the people to give me an account of what they think they have done that is most impactful to tell their story so that I so that it, you know, it can help jog my memory. It can help.
00:22:55 Chris Maddison
Me understand how they see themselves. So, you know, keeping a list of like just a rough list of like what you contributed to the kind of impact you had?
00:23:05 Diane
This is so helpful because now all your time can go into writing a great letter instead of looking up basic facts about the student.
00:23:13 Mario
And Professor Nobre described a similar approach.
00:23:17 Carolina Nobre
So often times I asked them to draft the letter and I think it's interesting because it helps frame what they find their strengths are. I will obviously rephrase it, and oftentimes I really just use their letter to get a sense of what are the things that they highlight and see themselves and then just a list of their accomplishments or things that they would like me to include. And then I can kind of see what I do or don't include based on my own.
00:23:38 Carolina Nobre
Experience with them.
00:23:41 Mario
That this happened to me once, so be aware that this could happen to you. You might get asked to write a draft, try not to be shy about it, just write about what you honestly believe that you contributed.
00:23:51 Diane
And one other idea. You're likely asking the Prof to give you a reference from multiple schools. We'll talk about how many to apply to in a moment.
00:24:00 Diane
But you need to know that it's not a matter of them simply submitting the same letter to several schools.
00:24:05 Mario
No. Each one has its own forms. We have to fill out, some of which takes some real thought. For example, they often require us to rate the candidate on some like 5 or 10 criteria such as originality, maturity, judgment, communication skills, teaching ability.
00:24:22 Diane
Students should know that when you're rating the candidate, you have to check off a box. Are they in the top 2%, the top 5%?
00:24:30 Diane
The top 10%.
00:24:32 Mario
Top 2% is a pretty high.
00:24:33 Mario
Bar.
00:24:33 Diane
I know some of the schools make the top categories super stringent. The worst option, the one you never want to have to check, is unable to assess that is a killer of the application. You definitely don't want a professor writing you a reference letter who has to check unable to assess, unable to assess.
00:24:53 Diane
Been able to assess on these criteria.
00:25:00 Diane
So we've reached the final chapter of today's episode, choosing where to apply.
00:25:05 Gennady Pekhimenko
Strategically, I think it's a good idea to apply relatively broader like to your dream places to the top places, but also to a few places where you can.
00:25:14 Gennady Pekhimenko
See, they're all safe.
00:25:16 Mario
It's a great strategy. It's always a good idea to be well informed when deciding on your dream places.
00:25:22 Angela Demke Brown
So I think the first thing is to figure out what it is that you would like to do in your graduate.
00:25:28 Angela Demke Brown
Program and then try to find out what places are good at that thing. So it's not necessarily the even the top schools aren't necessarily the top schools for every single branch of computer science.
00:25:45 Diane
But how do you find out what schools are strong in the area you want to pursue, so you want to find out, you know where is good for what your interests are.
00:25:56 Angela Demke Brown
And one way to do that is by looking online. You can look at the your top conference publications in that area and see where the paper is coming from. So if you see our particular school is always publishing in the top venues.
00:26:15 Angela Demke Brown
In the areas that you're interested in, that's a pretty strong signal that that's going to be a place to consider.
00:26:23 Mario
So you can learn even more and this will sound cliche by now, but by talking to your professors.
00:26:30 Angela Demke Brown
The other thing to do is presumably your interest in some area was sparked by a course that you took or some interaction that you had with somebody in your undergraduate program.
00:26:42 Angela Demke Brown
So go talk to them about where they think the top places are or where they think you would do would have a successful graduate expert.
00:26:53 Angela Demke Brown
And.
00:26:55 Angela Demke Brown
The better that person knows you, the better they're going to be able to, you know, go beyond just, you know, these are the the top names in an area you may be able to talk a little bit about the geography of a place. Do you want to be in a big city? Do you want to be in a college town and and that should.
00:27:15 Angela Demke Brown
Way into where you want to go as well, because you're going to be living your life for years in the place that you end up. And if the providers you will, they may even be able to help you figure out where you have a good shot.
00:27:29 Diane
That.
00:27:30 Diane
And that's really helpful because you want to apply to some places that maybe stretch a little and it's a bit of a long shot, but you don't want to put all your eggs in those baskets. You you probably want some backups, applications and and you need to know where what, what the level is right to aim at. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. You want to, you want to get a range of schools that you apply.
00:27:52 Angela Demke Brown
And hopefully you will then have a second conversation about which of the offers you should you should choose from.
00:28:01 Mario
So how many schools should you apply?
00:28:05 Diane
How many applications is reasonable? Is it wise, for instance, to put in a lot so you have the best chance? So I think from a letter writers standpoint 5 to 10 is reasonable. More than 10 is pretty tough.
00:28:23 Angela Demke Brown
To ask for.
00:28:24 Nandita Vijaykumar
In my case, even though it is some work to submit each one, I don't set a limit, so I'm OK with how many ever. The only thing that I ask usually is that they're all together at one time, so I can do all of it in just one go.
00:28:39 Carolina Nobre
So definitely have your top schools have your backup schools. I would say applying to 1520 schools Max is still a high number.
00:28:47 Chris Maddison
I would say that that somewhere in the ballpark of 10 applications at most is reasonable. You want to pick places that that you would be very happy to go to if you got in and you should be aware that every application that you submit is going to incur some kind of burden on the people, some administrative burden on the people that are writing your letters, they have to.
00:29:08 Chris Maddison
Go to the.
00:29:08 Chris Maddison
Website Fill in a couple details and and and upload your letter.
00:29:13 Mario
The opinions varied here, and it's really a good idea to talk with your letter writers about how many places you're applying to, and hopefully get their input and advice on this as well as your choice of schools. All right, that was a great episode, but we still need to wrap up and talk about what you can take away from this.
00:29:32 Mario
Episode. So why don't we divide the students into two groups? We have our listeners who are literally applying to Graduate School right now.
00:29:41 Mario
And we have our listeners who will could potentially apply to Graduate School in the future. Let's focus on the latter, Diane. What advice do we have if they're not yet applying to Graduate School?
00:29:53 Diane
Yeah, if you're in even first year, you can start now thinking about getting research experience.
00:29:59 Mario
That's right. So we have so many different opportunities here at the University of Toronto. Check out our show notes for links, but just off the top of my head, we have the research opportunities program from the Faculty of Arts and Science we have.
00:30:13 Mario
The CSC 490 fours which you can take before you actually enter your 4th year.
00:30:18 Mario
Talk to our undergraduate office about how to complete the requirements so you can try to do a project with a faculty member before you need those reference.
00:30:27 Diane
Letters. Right. And we have the capstone course, CSC 490, which is also a great way to get experience. Sometimes it veers into development or it could be research as well. That's a great opportunity.
00:30:40 Diane
And I think the gold standard research opportunity, the ideal is to get a summer full time research position working with a faculty member through the answer QSR a program or UT EA program.
00:30:56 Mario
That's.
00:30:56 Mario
And so make sure you check out our show notes. We'll have links there, but what's our advice for students who are applying right now?
00:31:06 Diane
Well, I hope we've given them some insights into the importance of their letters of recommendation, which is another reason to get research experience and to get to know your props, talk to your profs.
00:31:17 Mario
Well, we also heard a little bit more about the statement of purpose. We hope this episode has demystified it a little bit.
00:31:24 Mario
For you and we also gave you some insights on how to strategize the subset of schools that you should be applying to.
00:31:31 Diane
Yeah. How many and which ones? And I hope you got the sense that getting organized, organized well in advance will really help you because you need time to figure out things like what schools to apply to, probably talk to your profs about their advice on that. You need to develop this statement of purpose. And since it's such an odd beast, it's going to take.
00:31:50 Diane
You a little while.
00:31:51 Diane
And you need to arrange the letters giving your props enough lead time.
00:31:55 Mario
All right. Well, we wish you the best of luck. My name is Mario batter.
00:32:00 Diane
And I'm Diane Horton. And you are?
00:32:03 Mario
In the loop.
00:32:05 Mario
That was our best.
00:32:05 Diane
One in right. It was pretty synched.
00:32:06 Mario
Hey.
00:32:16 Diane
Hey Mario, did I ever tell you I used to write software for an origami company?
00:32:21 Mario
No, you've you've never mentioned.
00:32:23 Diane
That, yeah, it it might.
00:32:24 Diane
Sound weird, but it's all basically math at its heart, right?
00:32:28 Mario
Was that a?
00:32:28 Mario
Joke. No, that wasn't.
00:32:29 Diane
A joke.
00:32:32 Diane
The company folded, though.
00:32:36 Mario
That's worse than mine.
00:32:38 Diane
Yeah, it's really bad.